Should I Worry About My BMI? [Podcast Transcript]

Title: Should I Worry About My BMI?

Podcast Date: May 27, 2025

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Description

Stressing over your BMI? Perhaps a recent doctor's visit has you spiraling over what you need to do to change your Body Mass Index. Today, Heather sits down with two authors who have researched the history, background, and scientific usefulness of the Body Mass Index. You'll be surprised by where this chart originated, how it's used now that was not at all how it was intended to be used, and more. If you've ever stressed over your BMI...this is the episode for you.

Learn more about Stephane Brown and Anna Marie Long's new book, Nourished By Faith, here. https://amzn.to/42JPCmF  (Amazon affiliatel link).

Connect with Anna Marie here: https://www.annamarierd.com

Learn more about Compared to Who? by visiting: Https://www.improvebodyimage.com

The 40-Day Body Image Workbook: https://www.improvebodyimage.com/40-Day-Body-Image-Workbook-Christian

The 40 Day Journey (starts week of June 16): https://www.improvebodyimage.com/40-day-challenge

Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript is AI-generated and has not been edited for accuracy or clarity.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:00]:

Stephanie Brown and Anna Marie Long, welcome to the Compared to Who podcast.

Anna Marie Long [00:00:05]:

Yes. Thanks for having us.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:07]:

Hey. Well, I'm excited to talk to you about today because you are gonna help us unpack this question that comes up a lot, which is, but what about my BMI? And for if you're listening, you're like, what's a BMI? I don't I don't know if many people have that question, but BMI stands for body mass index. And it has become a metric over the last few decades of physicians telling someone whether or not they're healthy based on this number. And so today, we're gonna dig into it. So if if you've had this happen to you, and I know a lot of you have, if you've walked in your doctor's office and you feel like, you know what? I feel pretty good. Like, I'm probably doing okay. And then the doctor pulls out this chart and shows you where you are with your BMI and tells you maybe labels you with a word like obese or overweight and tells you that you need to go on a diet to fix that. We're gonna talk about that scenario today, so I'm glad you're here for it.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:03]:

But to get us started, I would just love to hear about your stories. Anna Marie, you work as a dietitian. Stephanie, you do all kinds of fitness things. So, Annemarie, why don't you just start? Tell us what you do and maybe what your journey was to getting there because there's always a story behind it. Right?

Anna Marie Long [00:01:22]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I am a registered dietitian and certified eating disorder specialist, in the Austin area. I've been doing this for a little over seven years now, and I work almost exclusively with eating disorders. So, I kinda came into eating disorders or I came into the nutrition field originally, because I was spending a lot of time just googling stuff and, like, doing my own, quote, unquote, research and, spending a lot of time just counting calories, doing all the things that I tell my clients not to do. And I took a nutrition class, and I said, oh, I can major in this. This would be great. I can well, at the time, it was not motivated by the best reasons, but, I thought, oh, I can help people change their bodies.

Anna Marie Long [00:02:10]:

And then the more that I learned about nutrition and the more that I learned about intuitive eating, I was like, wait. Why do people need to change their bodies? Why can't we just fuel our bodies with what they need, and trust god with the rest? And so read intuitive eating and thought, oh, well, I'm I'm gonna do this. I read the whole book in less than a week and said, okay. I'm gonna be an intuitive eater. No more tracking. No more, you know, any of the other things that I was doing. And as most of y'all probably can assume, it wasn't that easy. And just over time, kind of doing my own work, I was like, okay.

Anna Marie Long [00:02:45]:

Like, I wanna do intuitive eating work. I'm like, I wanna teach people how to eat intuitively and, kind of got into eating disorders when I was an intern. Really loved it and, loved helping people improve their body image. And, I just kind of got into it that way, but also kinda had to do my own work before I even started. And, yeah, and just really thanking God that, like, you know, my path, my path to becoming a dietitian was, not, you know, not the ideal path, but also, like, I'm really glad that he has me here and he has me helping people improve their relationships with food and relearn how food actually works in our bodies despite what diet culture says.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:29]:

Yeah. That's so good. And, I mean, I think it's important to, like, what you said. Like, you didn't just go from counting calories and all the things to, oh, I read intuitive eating. Now I'm an intuitive eater. Like, there's work to be done there. So I appreciate that. And I appreciate you.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:45]:

And I know that when you've walked through it yourself, that just equips you on a whole nother level. Like, of course you can help people not having walked through it, but once you know the drill, you are just so much more effective, and being able to help people. So, Stephanie, let's let's hear about you and what you do.

Anna Marie Long [00:04:09]:

Yeah. So, I graduated this past May from UT Austin with bachelor, in a bachelor's in nutrition, and I'm currently getting my master's in human services counseling and, about to enter into my dietetic internship to finish and hopefully become a registered dietitian. But throughout college, I, similarly, I guess, going back a little bit more, early high school, my mom had a few rounds of breast cancer, and I also fell into this trap of I'm always, a control person and thought that I could control, oh, why did this come back? Oh, it must be Google tells me that x food causes cancer, which there's so much more depth than that, but I took it as it will because I just wanted quick answers and quickly developed my own food fears, as well as grew up in the competitive cheer world. And so lots of, unhealthy body image and unhealthy body talk. I spiraled into an eating disorder myself all throughout high school and, recovered at the end of my junior year and seen. And I was, introduced to the gospel kind of over the span of my senior year of high school and, came to know the Lord right before I moved to college. And in college, I thought I wanted to go a little bit more of the research route with nutrition. And while I still do love the research route, that still wasn't fully where I felt like I was super passionate about.

Anna Marie Long [00:05:48]:

And so I got introduced to Anna Marie and was able to intern with her, and that's where I really kind of solidified the desire to want to fall on the path to be a registered dietitian. And simultaneously was going through our, local church's recovery gospel center recovery program and then began to serve there and really saw the heart to have the gospel as the central focus to any recovery from any struggle. And so graduated, like I said, in May and, took a little gap year to do a theology program working in a recovery ministry here in Dallas, and, yeah, hoping to get working in the field somewhat soon. But I also, in my side, work as a certified personal trainer and love getting to just help people find joy in movement and learn how to listen to their body. Because I think intuitive movement is just as important as intuitive eating.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:48]:

Yeah. I love that. And I love that you said that the gospel is important to recovery because I work with a lot of women that have tried all the other things, all the other programs that are out there that don't involve any spiritual aspect whatsoever. And it's like, yeah, you can try to fix this physically. You can try to behavior modify. You can try to do all those things, but until you start experiencing some heart change, ain't nothing gonna really happen in very long term. So I love that. Well, you guys have done a lot of research.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:23]:

And in your research, you uncovered some interesting facts around the BMI. Now this is, like, honestly, like, I've seen just in the last year or so. Like, this is becoming a little bit more mainstream. Like, you know, depending on who you follow on Instagram, you may have seen some of this. But I feel like by and large, most people just believe that the BMI, the body mass index chart was, like, created by this, like, stellar group of doctors and, you know, just like this really scientific data driven, like, calculation, that doctors use and it's not, is it, Anna Marie?

Anna Marie Long [00:08:09]:

No. It is not at all. And, so the BMI was actually created, in the eighteen hundreds by a Belgian man, and I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation of his name, but it's Adolf Quatlet, which, again, don't quote me on that pronunciation. But he was an academic person, and, he was he was a mathematician, an astronomer, a sociologist, but he wasn't a doctor. And the reason that he, created the BMI was he was a researcher. And so he was trying to find the quote, unquote average man of Belgian and Dutch descent. And so he was observing trends in populations, not individuals. And so what he did was he took weight in kilograms and divided it by height in meters squared.

Anna Marie Long [00:09:02]:

And at first, when you hear that, it's like, wait. We don't measure height in square meters. That doesn't make any sense. But if you just took weight divided by height, that wouldn't create the perfect bell curve that he was looking for for his research. So he went ahead and squared the height so that it would create that bell curve and that we could see an average. And so, you know, an average gives you, like there are a lot of people that are right at average. There are some that are above, some that are below. But the point was research.

Anna Marie Long [00:09:33]:

It had nothing to do with health status. It had nothing to do with eating trends, eating habits, genetics, nothing. It was he was just trying to see what is the average Belgian man.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:47]:

Yeah.

Anna Marie Long [00:09:47]:

And in doing that, he didn't even take women into account. He didn't take any other race or ethnicity into account. But we've taken this metric, and we've applied it to all Americans.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:59]:

Right.

Anna Marie Long [00:10:00]:

So it really just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:02]:

Right. Well and let let me just repeat it in case someone didn't hear clearly. You said the 18 in Belgium. Right? So definitely, we're only talking about, like, white people from Yes. From that, like, European descent. Right? But then even then, like, I don't know. I've toured historic Williamsburg. I don't know if you all have been there.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:25]:

But in historic Williamsburg and Jamestown Colony, you can go into the places that the people who first came over to America went and guess what? Like the beds are shorter and the doors stoops are shorter. Right? Because they were smaller people. Right. They were fed differently than we're fed. You know, I mean, just, there's so many different things that have happened genetically to the way people are since the eighteen hundreds. I mean, it's crazy, isn't it? So so Stephanie Absurd. The it is Stephanie. So, like, so then what was the process? Like, who decided that we should use this to decide whether or not we're good? Right? Because that's what that's what the physicians are using it for, unfortunately, nowadays.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:14]:

What happened?

Anna Marie Long [00:11:17]:

Yeah. I think, this whole idea of finding the average and finding the bell curve, like you said, for research purposes just gave the classic chart that everyone wants to see, and it was easy to look at, and it's easy to understand. And so, I just kind of the research world adopted that. And ever since then, the numbers have kind of changed, from the set points. And so, for instance, we talked about that was created in eighteen hundreds. But in the early nineteen hundreds, the or, yeah, I think it was the early nineteen hundreds. There was a point, where late nineteen hundreds. Sorry.

Anna Marie Long [00:12:03]:

Where the original BMI cutoff point for, quote, unquote, overweight or, quote, unquote, obese was then moved up, almost two whole BMI points or whatever you wanna call it, overnight, just because of policy changes. And so that literally created, a whole thousands of people that were considered now overweight, quote, unquote, from where they used to be normal or same thing, oh, quote, unquote, obese, just because of the decision of a few people, in the health and, honestly, the weight loss industry world. And so I think that just goes to show how, how, like, kind of flippant these numbers are. And, like, we could wake up tomorrow morning and people could decide again through policy to change those numbers, and that would to change those numbers, and that would, like, change everything that, we're told about our bodies rather than actually knowing what the word says about our bodies and being able to be intuitive with where everybody wants to be. And, yeah, I think it's more of just a label that we slap on ourselves and that insurance wants to use for reimbursement purposes than it has anything to do with, our actual internal health.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:28]:

Yeah. Yeah. But you hit the nail on the head there, insurance. And I know that in the insurance industry played a major role in, you know, kinda making BMI a thing here in The United States. And, of course, like, to some degree, I understand that perhaps you do need some sort of measure or metrics. Right? But what's the problem, Annemarie, with just using this formula, these numbers. I mean, like Stephanie said, right, if you had a BMI of twenty, I think it was, like, nineteen ninety six for some reason. That data is in my head.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:03]:

But it was it was in the nineties.

Anna Marie Long [00:14:04]:

Ninety five.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:05]:

Ninety five. Okay. So I was a college student in 1995, and I'm only vaguely aware. Like, I don't think we were as aware of BMI stuff then. Like, I don't think that was something commonly we talked about. Right? But, like, overnight, if you have, like, a twenty BMI, like, all of a sudden or twenty two or whatever the number was, like, all of a sudden, you got adjusted two points differently to where now you might have been healthy in 1994. Now in 1995, you're overweight or obese. Like, like, what's what's the problem with using something this simple, Anna Marie?

Anna Marie Long [00:14:40]:

Yeah. So it really only takes into account height and weight. Like, it doesn't take any other factors into consideration. So, like, it doesn't take in, you know, what's somebody's stress level? Like, what are their labs look like? What does their activity level look like? What is their home life like? What is their, built environment? And, like, what is their socioeconomic status? Like, it takes really nothing except height and weight into account. And, I was actually talking to a friend about this, and, she said, well, I thought BMI was what defines someone as being healthy or not healthy. No. Like, you you can't just take these two factors and say, okay. This person is healthy or this person is not healthy.

Anna Marie Long [00:15:22]:

We can also see in research that if you look at just height and weight to classify someone as, quote, unquote, healthy or unhealthy, and then you look at other factors like their labs, triglycerides, cholesterol, etcetera, to classify them as healthy or unhealthy, then there's actually a mismatch there. And we talked about this in the book, how there's a lot of people that are based on labs and metabolic markers would actually be considered very healthy, but then by BMI, they're classified as unhealthy, which just kinda goes to show you how ridiculous this is of, you know, it takes two two data points into consideration and nothing else.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well and then Stephanie working in gyms, like I did. I mean, I heard this all the time. Right? Like, I need to do something because my BMI is is is bad. And you're looking at the person, you're like, you're like solid muscle. Right. Or even women with larger chests.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:21]:

Right. Like I have a friend and she's just very well endowed and she's just, you know, there's not a lot of extra there in other places, but she's very well endowed. And so BMI wise, she's in the overweight category. It mean, w you know, what, what kind of things have you seen with this, Stephanie?

Anna Marie Long [00:16:42]:

Yeah. For sure, in the gyms, the specific gym that I work at, they have something called an InBody scanner, and they always have different challenges going on to, challenge people to drop numbers. And what I often see is people coming in and stepping on the InBody scanner and seeing that their weight went up and freaking out. And I'm like, well, that's because muscle mass, like, makes you, like, heavier, and that's not bad. Like, weight is not the epitome of bad. And just, like, getting to talk people through that and explain, I think a lot of times is super helpful because people just know don't just don't know. You hear things, and then you just adopt it for yourself without actually doing the research. And then I mean, very similar to what we're talking about in doctor's offices as well.

Anna Marie Long [00:17:35]:

I had that was kind of the first time that I had a wrong belief about my body when I was early middle school. I walked in, and they told me I was in the ninetieth percentile. And, of course, I'm like, what does that mean? And what that tells us is that, oh, there's something wrong with me. And that was what I believed for years and years and years, and I think that's what so many people's story is, is they think that there's something wrong with them because they're outside of the, quote, unquote, average when the average doesn't actually take into consideration, like Anna Marie said, muscle mass or brain size or, any sort of body composition, body distribution. And then the last, well, not last, but another final area that I for sure see it in is I currently work in, like, the scheduling and billing world of, dietetics behind the scenes, and I'm seeing benefit checks all the times from insurances. And just like Anna Marie talked about with labs, like, someone might have hyperlipidemia or, diabetes, and they won't get covered for counseling sessions sometimes because they don't have the BMI cutoff. And then other people who do have just a certain BMI without any other correlating factors end up getting covered, which that's great, but it just goes to show how much our insurance and medical system also feeds into the idea of, health is only defined by weight and what you look like, not anything else internal going on.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:18]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing that people, just because they're in a lower BMI, are not getting the diabetes counseling. They like, that's, you know, that is that's should be startling. Right? Because it's like you have the disease diagnosed and you still oh, man. We got some messed up stuff in our policy around this for sure. But I think you hit the nail on the head too. It's something it's like weight equals health.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:45]:

I mean, so many of us were taught that it's that's like a deep neural pathway that it is hard to redirect to build another one. What do you think, Annamarie?

Anna Marie Long [00:20:04]:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like, you know, when you're told by your doctor or, you know, by any provider, like, oh, you know, this is where you're at. You should change it. Then it it puts that ownership on you when in reality, like, we don't get to choose our weight. In In the same way, we don't get to choose our height. You know, BMI is weight in kilograms divided by height and meter squared. Like, they wouldn't say, okay.

Anna Marie Long [00:20:26]:

Well, go get taller. Like, no. Like, that's absurd. In the same way that, like, you know, you can you can engage in disordered behaviors to manipulate your weight, but if you're listening to your body or listening to those god given hunger cues, then you can't really control your weight, which I think a lot of people, you know, might disagree with of, like, oh, well, what if you do, you know, all of these things? It's like okay. But what's the heart behind that? Like, what is, you know, what's the motivation?

Heather Creekmore [00:20:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. Because I know someone listening is saying, what do you mean you can't choose your weights? Like, if I would just stop eating ice cream and, you know, replace, like, all my meals with shakes or something, I know I could choose a smaller weight. But that actually doesn't even practically pan out from the research, does it, Stephanie? I mean, like, we know that dieting doesn't work long term, does it?

Anna Marie Long [00:21:26]:

Yeah. No. What you often find, even in research that looks at BMIs, is oftentimes the people that do, manipulate their weight from different fad diets actually end up later higher on the BMI chart because your body's natural, god given, signals is your your body registers that weight loss as a starvation period and then wants to hold on to all the nutrients, and it actually slows your basal metabolic rate, out of protection for you. And so that kinda goes into a little bit of set point theory and how we all were, given a a point at which our body thrives. And, I mean, I know even for me, whenever I heard that lie of, oh, man. Like, something's wrong with me, and I tried to put myself on a different percentage, that led into me losing my period and a whole other physical symptoms, which goes to show, like, there's so many signs that my body was giving me. Like, you're not supposed to be here. But it then if we continue to look to the right or to the left of well, their body is functioning at that weight and their body is functioning in this way.

Anna Marie Long [00:22:40]:

That just takes our eyes off of God and how he made us and onto other people around us. And, yeah, our our bodies were just all made to be different, and that glorifies God, and that shows, the diversity. And so yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:59]:

Yeah. I mean, I I just I wanna restate something you said. If if your BMI is correct, and I'm using air quotes for those of you just listening, you've got the right BMI, but you have hypothalamic amenorrhea, which is the loss of period. Right? You are not healthy. Right? And I and I feel like that's still such a disconnect for so many people. Right? Because, like, there's a very popular diet plan out there, and it doesn't take but a couple of Google searches to recognize that, like, a majority of people that follow this plan will lose their hair and will lose their period And we'll have other, like, physical symptoms, that are showing that their body is not in a good spot, but they might be getting thin and they, you know, drop the weight. So now their BMI is cracked and it's, oh, y'all, I mean, we got work to do. I mean, even to convince women and men, but but convince people in the church world, people who profess a love for Jesus, that health doesn't mean a certain weight and that they don't have to buy everything the world is selling around weight loss and health and fitness and all those things.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:19]:

So you guys are trying to do that through this book you wrote. Anna Marie, tell us a little bit about that.

Anna Marie Long [00:24:26]:

Yeah. So the idea for the book kind of came about when I took this theology class through, mine and Stephanie's church in Austin, back in 2021. And the end of the class was, okay. Well, you know, what are you gonna do with all this theology information that you've gained? And I said, well, I mean, I kinda the the biggest takeaway from the class is the the the gospel applies to every aspect of your life. And up until then, I've been kind of compartmentalizing, like, okay. This is work, and this is my relationship with Jesus. Like, they're two completely separate things. But then when you kind of flip that around and look at the world through the lens of scripture and not the other way around, it's like, oh, wait.

Anna Marie Long [00:25:10]:

The the gospel does apply to the work that I'm doing. The gospel does apply to body image. The gospel does apply to our relationship with food. It does apply to eating disorder recovery. And so once I like, those gears kind of clicked, I said, okay. I'm gonna write this book. And so in 2021, I wrote one chapter. And then in 2022, I started my practice, and the book kinda just got pushed to the back burner and not worked on for another couple of years.

Anna Marie Long [00:25:40]:

And then Stephanie interned with me, and we led some book clubs. And, one of the book clubs that we led, we disagreed with the author's stance on both gluttony and fasting. So we wrote position papers on that, and we just posted them, on my website for people in the book club to read just, like, with a hidden link. As long as they have the link, they can go read it. And then I said, wait. Stephanie is a really good writer. Like, we could get together. We could make this like, we could write this book together because I'm clearly not gonna do it because it's been three years, and I'm just sitting with a Google Doc that has nothing on it.

Anna Marie Long [00:26:16]:

And so I just, you know, needed the the motivation of someone who, like, was on the same page as me. I was like, hey. The gospel applies to this. And also had college student energy that I no longer have. And since having a baby, my energy has gone down even more. But yeah. So we got together, and we kind of divvied up the chapters. And, that's kinda how the book came to be, but we took all these hot topics and things that clients were bringing to me in session and things that, like, we think that either the church doesn't talk enough about or addresses incorrectly.

Anna Marie Long [00:26:53]:

We decided, like, let's write a book and try and see, like, how can we speak gospel truth into areas that are so hard, for so many women and men.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:03]:

Yeah. That's good. That's good. Okay. So, Stephanie, as we wrap up today, what part was your favorite or most surprising, or what what did you like best that's in the book?

Anna Marie Long [00:27:16]:

Yeah. Great question. I think it's ironic that we're doing BMI today because I did genuinely love getting to learn more about BMI. And I think also just getting to, provide evidence based research around BMI as also around intuitive eating and just, general food principles in a book that also discusses spirituality because I think it's a lot of times, that, like, science research and, like, spiritual matters are just separate. And they don't have to be, and I don't think they should be. And so that was really cool. I think, honestly, what was the coolest for me to personally study was, the fasting chapter and just getting to talk about feasting, fasting, and gluttony and how those truly are, like, such deeply rooted biblical principles yet so skewed in society. And so those were probably my, like, favorites and what I thought was most unique as we went about it and kind of, like, where we started both, and everything else was built from there.

Anna Marie Long [00:28:28]:

Uh-huh. But, honestly, like, the whole the whole process just stirred my affections more for god because we too were, like, sitting in the word and studying and reading commentaries and asking people for reviews and getting other opinions and, just taking into consideration, like Anna Marie said, questions that were brought to her in sessions, questions that I've heard from friends or that I used to have myself. And so it's just a really cool process.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:55]:

Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. And I mean, I guess if you're like, oh, like, gluttony? Like, there's something more to gluttony? Like, I did two full episodes where I walked through every Bible verse that mentions glutton or gluttony. You know, we went real in-depth. So if you're listening today and you're wondering about that, you can read their book and you can also listen to those episodes. And I've done a zillion episodes on fasting. My favorite is the one I did with Amy Carlson, who is a fantastic non diet dietitian in Houston.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:25]:

So, you guys can check those out. I'll put the links in the show notes as well. Stephanie and Anna Marie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Anna Marie Long [00:29:33]:

Yes. Thank you for having us. This is great.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:35]:

And tell everyone where they can get your book, Nourished by Faith.

Anna Marie Long [00:29:39]:

Yes. So you can buy it on Amazon. Just type in Nourished by Faith, or you can also buy it on literarycanvas.com. And, either way, we also have the audiobook on Spotify.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:50]:

Awesome. That's great. Well and do you are you taking new clients, Anna Marie?

Anna Marie Long [00:29:56]:

I am. So I just came back from maternity leave three weeks ago. So I do have current openings right now.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:03]:

1. And you have a website?

Anna Marie Long [00:30:05]:

I do. It's annamarierd.com.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:08]:

Great. Okay. Well, thank you guys so much for being on the podcast today, and thank you for watching or listening. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye bye.